Divorce

Kristopher · 11-20-2008, 09:26 AM

This is a topic that has been a fire pit of insane debate since even Biblical times, and I'm curious to see opinions from people posting here.

For starters, let me explain my experience:

I am married, have never been divorced, but before I met my lovely bride, I was confronted with the situation of dating a divorced woman. She was a wonderful God-fearing woman who ended up divorcing her husband because he was verbally abusive. It was also a situation of uneven yoking - she was a Christian, but her husband was not. She hadn't been a Christian for long before they got married, however.

I spoke with many pastors, friends, and councilors about what to do in that situation, and after much prayer and research decided that I should not marry a divorced woman, so I broke off our (short) relationship. It's been quite a long time since, and it's likely that she has since found someone and started a new relationship with them. At the time, I tried to convince her that she should stay single and avoid romantic relationships - of course, she didn't want to hear it

.

In Matthew 19:4-12, Jesus states:

'"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."'

I am so blessed that I was part of a home that has no divorce in it, from my parents all the way up to my grandparents and great grandparents. My wife and I fully intend to keep that tradition, even when things are hard (and they have certainly been hard!).

So, I ask you guys, what are your thoughts on divorce? We can move on to headier topics later, but for now, let's just stick with basic plain 'ol divorce.

Mr. Harris · 11-21-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristopher

"The one who can accept this should accept it."'

This is the most important part of his statement in current times. This is where the churches, clergy, and others will argue this is the defining statement of the whole issue.

My parents were divorced, and while my father never remarried my mother did. I personally hope that I never have to deal with divorce, I've been happily married now for 6 years and have 2 small children.

I personally don't believe it's against the bible to get divorced, people are people and times change. I believe the most important message in the bible is accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior, the rest is just a guideline for behavior and social situations to help you become more christ-like.

Mr. Harris

LFJC · 01-04-2009, 10:22 AM

Thats a sad tale Kris. However, I dont think that its intended that someone divorced should be shunned or that you should avoid dating them. I mean, what if he had been physically abusive and not just verbally? Is she expected to sit there and take the beatings and die all in the name of not being divorced?

Kristopher · 01-09-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFJC

Thats a sad tale Kris. However, I dont think that its intended that someone divorced should be shunned or that you should avoid dating them. I mean, what if he had been physically abusive and not just verbally? Is she expected to sit there and take the beatings and die all in the name of not being divorced?

I don't believe that someone should be shunned because they are divorced. God hates divorce, but I don't believe that it is a sin to divorce. The Bible does state that someone who is divorced who re-marries commits adultery and causes the person who marries them to commit adultery, which is obviously a sin.

I never said that someone should stay in an abusive relationship. They should escape somewhere that they are safe, but the Bible also states:

1 Peter 3:1-2:

"Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives."

That abusive situation might result in salvation for the abuser, where it would NOT have if the wife up and divorced him immediately.

Think about the whole idea of marriage as well: the Bible tells husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church. The church today (the bride of Christ) often mocks Christ and spits in his face, and yet he loves his bride still and cherishes her. How sad would it be if our society's idea of divorce were applied to Christ? The first time we sinned (committed adultery) we would be lost beyond redemption because Christ would divorce us. That's not who He is, and hot how He operates, thanks be to God!

LFJC · 01-15-2009, 05:26 AM

Not sure I buy that but I do see your point. But supposing a 22 yr old bride gets beaten regularly by her husband for several months, hospitalized, etc.

Are you saying that, in such a case , through no fault of her own, the woman is now "damaged goods" and cannot ever remarry? I know in extrordinarily rare cases the Catholic church will grant an annulment, but those cases are rare and often difficult to get an annulment granted. My 7th grade sunday school teacher's husband left the country and vanished and it took her 17 years to get an annulment from the church.

Londie · 01-15-2009, 02:38 PM

As much as it pains me ( lol

) I'm going to have to agree with LFJC on this issue to an extent. Marriage is a very serious step in the relationship and not to be taken lightly by any means. Its sacred and sanctified by God and no, I don't believe he likes it one bit when a marriage ends in divorce. But to me there are certain exceptions, like infidelity and abuse. I don't believe for one second that God would wish me to stay in a marriage where my husband beat me all the time or verbally assaulted me day in and day out.

I do however think divorce has become so commonplace that its deemed the "easy" fix in a marriage so people don't want to put forth the effort anymore in trying to fix things. Sometimes a marriage is beyond fixable, sometimes its not - with a little bit of effort from both sides.

My husband and I have been married 5 1/2 years now and have a son. I'm his second wife. The first marriage ended when his wife cheated on him. Even then, he didn't leave her - she left him. He was willing to try and work it out. So - was he not to remarry because she left him? It certainly wasn't his decision.

Another scenario that generates a question. My uncle is married to his second wife. He is also her second husband. In his first marraige, the wife cheated on him and claimed the girl he thought for 10+ years was his daughter actually was not. Biblically justified ( though he wasnt a christian at the time ) he divorced her. His new wife, left her first husband because he was abusive, verbally, and he cheated on her. Now, my uncle and his wife have been married for 10 years and are beyond happy and in love. Since they got married, they have both found salvation and are two of the strongest Christians I've ever seen.

My question is - once they got saved, should they have divorced - which would have no biblical justification according to the above quoted scripture? OR, should they not get the divorce and live, in some people's opinions, sin? With the OP's belief - it seems a catch 22 and either way they are screwed.

Ultimaomega · 01-15-2009, 10:13 PM

Actually Londie, if they divorced in a manner justified in God's eyes, remarrying does not qualify as adultery. It's only in cases where the divorce is not justified where it becomes adultery.

Londie · 01-16-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimaomega

Actually Londie, if they divorced in a manner justified in God's eyes, remarrying does not qualify as adultery. It's only in cases where the divorce is not justified where it becomes adultery.

Fair enough, I see your point. So then that only applies to divorce due to infidelity? If my husband decided to beat the crap out of me or verbally abuse me and tear me down mentally on a daily basis - then I either get a divorce and never find love or I stay in that abusive marriage with the thread of hope that he might change and find Jesus? Sorry, but I just can't see it that way.

Ultimaomega · 01-16-2009, 05:46 AM

Of course God wouldn't want you to stay in that abusive relationship. I'd wager that marital unfaithfulness would include something as unloving to your spouse as mental and physical abuse.

LFJC · 01-17-2009, 05:23 AM

I think... that it is one of those things that sort of needs to be taken on a case by case basis. To me, things like 1 year celebrity marriages that end in divorce, that sort of seems wrong, like there was no effort or that the marriage was a buisness decision or something.

However, if you are abused, or have another specific "game changing" reason, its it a worse sin to divorce? Or for you and your partner to live in misery?

An interesting debate to be sure. I dont think I would ever end a relationship just because someone was married.

11-20-2008, 09:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kristopher Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 20 My Photos: (0)	Divorce This is a topic that has been a fire pit of insane debate since even Biblical times, and I'm curious to see opinions from people posting here. For starters, let me explain my experience: I am married, have never been divorced, but before I met my lovely bride, I was confronted with the situation of dating a divorced woman. She was a wonderful God-fearing woman who ended up divorcing her husband because he was verbally abusive. It was also a situation of uneven yoking - she was a Christian, but her husband was not. She hadn't been a Christian for long before they got married, however. I spoke with many pastors, friends, and councilors about what to do in that situation, and after much prayer and research decided that I should not marry a divorced woman, so I broke off our (short) relationship. It's been quite a long time since, and it's likely that she has since found someone and started a new relationship with them. At the time, I tried to convince her that she should stay single and avoid romantic relationships - of course, she didn't want to hear it . In Matthew 19:4-12, Jesus states: '"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."' I am so blessed that I was part of a home that has no divorce in it, from my parents all the way up to my grandparents and great grandparents. My wife and I fully intend to keep that tradition, even when things are hard (and they have certainly been hard!). So, I ask you guys, what are your thoughts on divorce? We can move on to headier topics later, but for now, let's just stick with basic plain 'ol divorce.

01-04-2009, 10:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
LFJC Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 99 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce Thats a sad tale Kris. However, I dont think that its intended that someone divorced should be shunned or that you should avoid dating them. I mean, what if he had been physically abusive and not just verbally? Is she expected to sit there and take the beatings and die all in the name of not being divorced? __________________ *"Fossils came to exist during the flood. So did oil and all that. Dinosaurs lived with man, and were called dragons until the 1800s"* <--Fanatical Theory ,2008

01-15-2009, 05:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
LFJC Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 99 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce Not sure I buy that but I do see your point. But supposing a 22 yr old bride gets beaten regularly by her husband for several months, hospitalized, etc. Are you saying that, in such a case , through no fault of her own, the woman is now "damaged goods" and cannot ever remarry? I know in extrordinarily rare cases the Catholic church will grant an annulment, but those cases are rare and often difficult to get an annulment granted. My 7th grade sunday school teacher's husband left the country and vanished and it took her 17 years to get an annulment from the church. __________________ *"Fossils came to exist during the flood. So did oil and all that. Dinosaurs lived with man, and were called dragons until the 1800s"* <--Fanatical Theory ,2008

01-15-2009, 02:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
Londie Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 77 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce As much as it pains me ( lol ) I'm going to have to agree with LFJC on this issue to an extent. Marriage is a very serious step in the relationship and not to be taken lightly by any means. Its sacred and sanctified by God and no, I don't believe he likes it one bit when a marriage ends in divorce. But to me there are certain exceptions, like infidelity and abuse. I don't believe for one second that God would wish me to stay in a marriage where my husband beat me all the time or verbally assaulted me day in and day out. I do however think divorce has become so commonplace that its deemed the "easy" fix in a marriage so people don't want to put forth the effort anymore in trying to fix things. Sometimes a marriage is beyond fixable, sometimes its not - with a little bit of effort from both sides. My husband and I have been married 5 1/2 years now and have a son. I'm his second wife. The first marriage ended when his wife cheated on him. Even then, he didn't leave her - she left him. He was willing to try and work it out. So - was he not to remarry because she left him? It certainly wasn't his decision. Another scenario that generates a question. My uncle is married to his second wife. He is also her second husband. In his first marraige, the wife cheated on him and claimed the girl he thought for 10+ years was his daughter actually was not. Biblically justified ( though he wasnt a christian at the time ) he divorced her. His new wife, left her first husband because he was abusive, verbally, and he cheated on her. Now, my uncle and his wife have been married for 10 years and are beyond happy and in love. Since they got married, they have both found salvation and are two of the strongest Christians I've ever seen. My question is - once they got saved, should they have divorced - which would have no biblical justification according to the above quoted scripture? OR, should they not get the divorce and live, in some people's opinions, sin? With the OP's belief - it seems a catch 22 and either way they are screwed. __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."

01-15-2009, 10:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ultimaomega Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 44 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce Actually Londie, if they divorced in a manner justified in God's eyes, remarrying does not qualify as adultery. It's only in cases where the divorce is not justified where it becomes adultery.

01-16-2009, 05:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ultimaomega Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 44 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce Of course God wouldn't want you to stay in that abusive relationship. I'd wager that marital unfaithfulness would include something as unloving to your spouse as mental and physical abuse.

01-17-2009, 05:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
LFJC Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 99 My Photos: (0)	Re: Divorce I think... that it is one of those things that sort of needs to be taken on a case by case basis. To me, things like 1 year celebrity marriages that end in divorce, that sort of seems wrong, like there was no effort or that the marriage was a buisness decision or something. However, if you are abused, or have another specific "game changing" reason, its it a worse sin to divorce? Or for you and your partner to live in misery? An interesting debate to be sure. I dont think I would ever end a relationship just because someone was married. __________________ *"Fossils came to exist during the flood. So did oil and all that. Dinosaurs lived with man, and were called dragons until the 1800s"* <--Fanatical Theory ,2008