Creationism Vs Evolution - Page 7

Duo · 10-01-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyStrand

Lol. Just because you say the bible is faith, doesnt make it true. The bible claims things. Experience in doing what God says, and seeing it happen like he says IS science. Repeatable, and observable. That is why evolution is not science. Historical and archeologic studies shows that the Bible is true. The Bible has never been proven wrong.

Concerning gospels noting different things - When I tell a story, it will always be different then when a friend who experienced the same tells it. Both will be true, but we focus on different parts. Sometimes I might tell a story or part of a story to different people, and I will not tell the exact same things to all. Because I focus on what I think is relevant in that exact situation. God does the same. I have sat down and written all events in chronological order and it all fits. Non-christians though seem to have problems reading the words and of course finds problems, hundreds of times have I pointed out to them their misunderstanding, and though they accept they was wrong, they never stop believing that there MUST be something wrong in the bible somewhere. Why? Because they are too afraid of the consequences if it is.

List the Scientific sources that claim the Bible is true.

Exactly, there are none.

It seems you can only claim the Bible is true by quoting the Bible.

To give you an Idea of what that's like :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duo

The Bible does not = fact, The Bible = Faith.

According to the Book of Duo, chapter 24, verse 3. The bible is indeed a book of Faith.

the_zeeba · 10-02-2008, 07:04 AM

Heres an article that a few of the many things the Bible was criticized for when it turned out the Bible was right. Enjoy.

DB011 - equip.org

The Bible == truth == fact == science

snark · 10-02-2008, 10:23 AM

Your signature is telling, Zeeba. It is true there are sections of the Bible that are believed to be accurate portrayals of the time. But there is a distinct difference between the Bible and science. There is a difference between Truth and Science, which I think I should point out: Science is a method of obtaining truth - and it is certainly not the only way. I could pick up a pen and drop it, and claim that Gravity is a truth, but that is not science. Science would be dropping the pen multiple times, and concluding that there is a predictable force acting upon the pen called Gravity. Ultimately your train of logic ("The Bible == truth == fact == science") is empirically illogical.

the_zeeba · 10-02-2008, 10:34 AM

first of all, i dont see what your point did to refute anything i said.
and lol bringing up gravity as science. The only thing we know about gravity is that it is a force. We can describe how it interacts with our universe, but cannot explain it.
And yes, i read hawkings and einstein. I know what they say and why they say it.
You can say that gravity is caused by mass' interaction with time/space. The 'wells' caused by mass make things in the universe to 'fall' to the larger bodies. But those are still only models. not reasons. Only observances of the physical universe and speculations of metaphysical. Gravity is not science. The 'law' of gravity is simply a description of what cannot be fully grasped.
GG.

snark · 10-02-2008, 01:37 PM

And that was my entire point? Thanks zeeba.

You said "Bible == truth == fact == science"

I said science is the process of obtaining truth, but is never so bold as to admit it has achieved this.

Bible = faith in truth.
Science = a measurable process towards obtaining truth.

Science can produce facts with observable and repeatable evidence.

The bible produces "facts" through faith. These are inherently different types of facts.

TommyStrand · 10-02-2008, 04:53 PM

Wrong snark. The bible makes claims, like any science project. Millions of people have taken to act on those claims - sometimes they stand alone, and sometimes must be met on the conditions it gives, and it always comes out correct.

Ultimaomega · 10-03-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewz

In matthew- Mary and Joesph live in Bethlehem; Joseph is told to marry Marry hehehehe, in a dream by an angel; The Magi come and are warned to tell no one; Herod kills the Babies; Jesus, Mary, and Joseph run to egpyt and than later go to Galilee becasue herods son rules Judea

In Luke- Mary and Joesph live in Galilee and go to Bethlehem for the census where marry is told she will have a child and so will Elizabeth; They stay in a stable where jesus is put in a manager; angels appear to the shepards and they travel to see baby jesus; The shepards then are told to go out and spread the word.

First off, in Matthew, Bethlehem is not mentioned until Chapter 2, in which it is stated that the Christ was born in Bethlehem, which falls in line with the account in Luke, which, as you pointed out, says Mary and Joseph when from Galilee to Bethlehem for the census. Prior to leaving for the census, Joseph has the dream, as told in Matthew, as he was afraid Mary had been unfaithful (as sex is prohibited during the engagement period). The dream assured Joseph that Mary had not been unfaithful. Before all this was predicted the birth of the Christ and of John the Baptist. THEN they go to Bethlehem, THEN the Christ is born in a stable, THEN the shepherds see him, THEN the wise men speak with Herod, THEN they see the Christ (a couple years after his birth, so NOT in the manger), THEN the wise men are warned, THEN Joseph is warned, THEN they move to Egypt. See, it all fits chronologically, when you put together the events. But it doesn't really work when you do the switcheroo on chapters in the same book...which you did.

the_zeeba · 10-03-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyStrand

The bible makes claims, like any science project. Millions of people have taken to act on those claims - sometimes they stand alone, and sometimes must be met on the conditions it gives, and it always comes out correct.

good way to put it.

snark · 10-03-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyStrand

Wrong snark. The bible makes claims, like any science project. Millions of people have taken to act on those claims - sometimes they stand alone, and sometimes must be met on the conditions it gives, and it always comes out correct.

I agree with you. But there is a difference between science, and religion. They both are methods of obtaining truth, but they do so in drastically different ways. Science is not merely "making claims". That is a gross simplification.

You can draw analogies, but to say that they are equal is absurd.

TommyStrand · 10-03-2008, 06:28 PM

Religion can be - and are - explained in a variety of ways in the books. God, however, never said to us that He is our religion. I do not simply believe God lives, but I know so. I have His word, and His spirit to accompany me daily. When I read His word I can see the many claims and explanations He gives and then I can test it in action and see that it is correct. You are getting stuck in the definitions of the words - religion and science. Of course those words do not mean the same thing. But if by religion, you mean christianity - living with God - then science and religion are not mutually exclusive. Any science that people do correctly will simply confirm God - and show us the ways He did and still do things.

10-02-2008, 07:04 AM	#62 (permalink)
the_zeeba Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 119 My Photos: (1)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution Heres an article that a few of the many things the Bible was criticized for when it turned out the Bible was right. Enjoy. DB011 - equip.org The Bible == truth == fact == science __________________ evidence cannot create faith; it can only confirm it

10-02-2008, 10:23 AM	#63 (permalink)
snark Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10 My Photos: (0)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution Your signature is telling, Zeeba. It is true there are sections of the Bible that are believed to be accurate portrayals of the time. But there is a distinct difference between the Bible and science. There is a difference between Truth and Science, which I think I should point out: Science is a method of obtaining truth - and it is certainly not the only way. I could pick up a pen and drop it, and claim that Gravity is a truth, but that is not science. Science would be dropping the pen multiple times, and concluding that there is a predictable force acting upon the pen called Gravity. Ultimately your train of logic ("The Bible == truth == fact == science") is empirically illogical.

10-02-2008, 10:34 AM	#64 (permalink)
the_zeeba Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 119 My Photos: (1)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution first of all, i dont see what your point did to refute anything i said. and lol bringing up gravity as science. The only thing we know about gravity is that it is a force. We can describe how it interacts with our universe, but cannot explain it. And yes, i read hawkings and einstein. I know what they say and why they say it. You can say that gravity is caused by mass' interaction with time/space. The 'wells' caused by mass make things in the universe to 'fall' to the larger bodies. But those are still only models. not reasons. Only observances of the physical universe and speculations of metaphysical. Gravity is not science. The 'law' of gravity is simply a description of what cannot be fully grasped. GG. __________________ evidence cannot create faith; it can only confirm it

10-02-2008, 01:37 PM	#65 (permalink)
snark Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10 My Photos: (0)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution And that was my entire point? Thanks zeeba. You said "Bible == truth == fact == science" I said science is the process of obtaining truth, but is never so bold as to admit it has achieved this. Bible = faith in truth. Science = a measurable process towards obtaining truth. Science can produce facts with observable and repeatable evidence. The bible produces "facts" through faith. These are inherently different types of facts.

10-02-2008, 04:53 PM	#66 (permalink)
TommyStrand Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sandnes, Norway Posts: 151 My Photos: (0)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution Wrong snark. The bible makes claims, like any science project. Millions of people have taken to act on those claims - sometimes they stand alone, and sometimes must be met on the conditions it gives, and it always comes out correct.

10-03-2008, 06:28 PM	#70 (permalink)
TommyStrand Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sandnes, Norway Posts: 151 My Photos: (0)	Re: Creationism Vs Evolution Religion can be - and are - explained in a variety of ways in the books. God, however, never said to us that He is our religion. I do not simply believe God lives, but I know so. I have His word, and His spirit to accompany me daily. When I read His word I can see the many claims and explanations He gives and then I can test it in action and see that it is correct. You are getting stuck in the definitions of the words - religion and science. Of course those words do not mean the same thing. But if by religion, you mean christianity - living with God - then science and religion are not mutually exclusive. Any science that people do correctly will simply confirm God - and show us the ways He did and still do things.