Council of Niceia - Page 2

Lewz · 09-29-2008, 10:27 PM

Free will is the only reason we are considered the most beloved of his creations even before Angels who have no choice but to acknowledge the presence of God.

Many characters in the bible of exhibited there free will, and have been tested, even Jesus.

Archilaus · 09-30-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam person

So what you're saying is we are already Christians or not when we are born. There is no free will involved. I agree with some of your points, but I don't see how you can assume that there is no free will. While YOU may not chose to ignore God or a sign of him many do everyday. Just because it's not a flashing light, or being struck down like Saul doesn't mean its any less important.

Yeah ofcourse we all feel like we have free will. The bible spefically states in romans and various other books that God chooses us before we were born "before we have done either good or bad" We as humans believe we havce free will. The bible is saying we dont. So many people dont actually read the bible however and only go by what other people are telling them... This is why this little piece of info is constantly hidden.

Someone do me a favor and really read romans spefically chapter 9. Then post back here. I would hate to start spouyting scripture becuase anyone can take a few lines and make the bible say anything. Even worse I could give you the whole chapter and noone would read it

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Archilaus · 09-30-2008, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewz

Free will is the only reason we are considered the most beloved of his creations even before Angels who have no choice but to acknowledge the presence of God.

Many characters in the bible of exhibited there free will, and have been tested, even Jesus.

This is a sunday school notion that isnt actually found anywhere in the bible. Take into account lucifer had free will when he openly tried to take over the kingdom of heaven.

So your telling me Jesus could have failed? He simply wanted god to ease his pain or make it so he didnt have to be crucfied. Jesus as god was going through the plan no matter what it was simply his humanity kicking in. Of course people are tested in the bible that doesnt mean they have free will as those tests are alwasy set to allow the simple "humans" learn something... God already knows the outcome anyway. This is also stated biblically. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables?

Izzdar · 09-30-2008, 06:27 AM

Here it is said beter than I can. Romans 9

Londie · 09-30-2008, 06:47 AM

I really am not seeing where you are coming from in saying that there is no free will.

John 3:17 "God sent not His Son to the world to condemn the world, but through Him, they might be saved."

Why would God have made Himself flesh, destined to be a final sacrifice, bearing the sins of the world - just to save a few select people? It makes no sense to me.

In John 3:16 "..that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Whosoever being the key word - its not talking about a certain group of people, its a blanket that covers everyone.

Archilaus · 10-01-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzdar

Here it is said beter than I can. Romans 9

I still cant get to this site. I'm going to try tonight.

Lewz · 10-01-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilaus

This is a sunday school notion that isnt actually found anywhere in the bible. Take into account lucifer had free will when he openly tried to take over the kingdom of heaven.

So your telling me Jesus could have failed? He simply wanted god to ease his pain or make it so he didnt have to be crucfied. Jesus as god was going through the plan no matter what it was simply his humanity kicking in. Of course people are tested in the bible that doesnt mean they have free will as those tests are alwasy set to allow the simple "humans" learn something... God already knows the outcome anyway. This is also stated biblically. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables?

Could Jesus have failed, if he really wanted to sure hes God he can do whatever he wants. The point is he felt the same human temptations and didn't, which is supposed to be an example to us all, if we all had no free will there's not point in testing, or trying to do anything for that matter because its all predetermined.

As far as the angel thing i didn't say they didn't have freewill but they are unable to acknowledge the presence of God. If Lucifer/satan/THe devil knows God exists.

OldPaths · 10-02-2008, 06:53 PM

He could not have failed. That's a variant version of the old bogus chesnut that if god was really god, he could make a rock too heavy to lift. It's poor logic and poor philosophy.

The point is God can never act contrary to his nature. He was never able to say "Forget it, I'm going to the brothel..."

The ability to be tempted does not logically imply the potential to yield. The incarnation does not need to be fully comprehended to be apprehended as truth. One of the tensions we live with is that he was fully man - able to be tempted - and yet fully God - not able to sin.

09-29-2008, 10:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lewz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 154 My Photos: (0)	Re: Council of Niceia Free will is the only reason we are considered the most beloved of his creations even before Angels who have no choice but to acknowledge the presence of God. Many characters in the bible of exhibited there free will, and have been tested, even Jesus.

09-30-2008, 06:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
Izzdar Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 15 My Photos: (0)	Re: Council of Niceia Here it is said beter than I can. Romans 9

09-30-2008, 06:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
Londie Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 77 My Photos: (0)	Re: Council of Niceia I really am not seeing where you are coming from in saying that there is no free will. John 3:17 "God sent not His Son to the world to condemn the world, but through Him, they might be saved." Why would God have made Himself flesh, destined to be a final sacrifice, bearing the sins of the world - just to save a few select people? It makes no sense to me. In John 3:16 "..that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Whosoever being the key word - its not talking about a certain group of people, its a blanket that covers everyone. __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."

10-02-2008, 06:53 PM	#18 (permalink)
OldPaths Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 13 My Photos: (0)	Re: Council of Niceia He could not have failed. That's a variant version of the old bogus chesnut that if god was really god, he could make a rock too heavy to lift. It's poor logic and poor philosophy. The point is God can never act contrary to his nature. He was never able to say "Forget it, I'm going to the brothel..." The ability to be tempted does not logically imply the potential to yield. The incarnation does not need to be fully comprehended to be apprehended as truth. One of the tensions we live with is that he was fully man - able to be tempted - and yet fully God - not able to sin.