TommyStrand

I want to point out what I came to realize some time ago. To my knowledge, there is not one mention of any legal (God-given) relationship between man and woman other then marriage (and of course being engaged - the time between asking and the ceremony).

I mean, it does not mention that 2 people started dating, and kissing and setting a healthy limit they agreed on and then broke up and found someone else, and eventually after some tries they found someone they wanted to marry. Now, I know the Bible will not mention every detail of life, but this issue here - between man and women - is a huge part of life. I mean, next to repenting and living for God -it is the biggest thing.

I am seriously thinking that we are not ment to be "girlfriend and boyfriend" -ie dating with "physical contact marriage style - light version" (kissing etc).

A good rule of thumb I think is that if the Bible does NOT mention something, then it might be good to think a little bit if this issue is even an issue. Now dating, is an american fenomana as far as I know. We don't have it in europe in the same scale at all. Generally we hang around with a group of people, like friends of both parties and get to know each other, and at times alone as well of course. Still, it is different. I am not saying that the euro style is correct either though.

God DOES however say some things about it, and the few that are, should then be taken seriously:

Genesis 2:24
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Proverbs 18:22
"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord."

Genesis chapter 29 - recommended reading!
The amazing story about Jacob who worked 14 years for Rachel to be his wife.

1 Chorinthians 7:1-9 (and all the chapter really)
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

This is what I think should happen:

1) A christian should live for God. If he/she during this life encounter someone they like, then (convert first if neccessary), continue to live for God - get to know each other as human beings - being friends - and if they want to get married, then get married.
2) Continue to live for God together, helping each other through life. Abiding in the marriage that God gave them.

These thoughts of mine are somewhat new, and I would love to hear some bible verses if anyone thinks either the same or different. But please, bring the bible verse to back up your oppinion. I know the ramifications this will have on any christians life, and so I do not expect anyone to come from an "old" (please understand what I mean) view, and into this happily. Obviously our flesh wants to feel close to someone, even in a "light" - non-married version, even without the marriage. I do think though, that people today have very little patience. Again, think about Jacob, he did not have a particular relationship with Rachel before the actual marriage took place. Yes, they were probably friends, which is natural between all people. And they loved each other. Then they married. 14 years. People today can't even wait for a man/woman they love, but fool around with new ppl at every party...

But again... I would love some ideas on relationships - with bible verses.

Duo

The Bible doesn't come to grips with the reality that humans are flawed and therefore we won't always find our wife on the first shot, though I'm sure that's what many wish for.

Even if we think we found our perfect other, our partner may disagree, but not tell us. And since a solid relationship takes 2 people, even if your in love that doesn't mean the person loves you back the same.

So yes imo dating is perfectly fine, also in todays world no one is going to get married after a 1st date, unless their in vegas, and even then the divorce rate in america is 50%.

I think if you intend on dating someone then you should be loyal to that person alone. I do not like, nor approve of people who date multiple people at the same time.

If you are dating someone, to me that means that you want them in your life and that they are special to you.

Sorry I don't have any bible verse on this thing, I honestly don't think there's any to be found that could relate to dating as we see it today.

__________________
Lewz and Jesus are my homeboys.
"Imagination and Memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

TommyStrand

Yeah, thats what I mean. If there is no verse dealing with the way we have made it, why continue to act upon it the way that we made it?

I am glad you support dating one person at a time though! Hehe. Kudos to you.

I didn't mean that we should marry after first date. What I meant is, instead of being together as in girlfriend and boyfriend, just be friends until they decide - hey I want to marry this one.

Also, I dont believe I have to randomly find one girl out of everyone in the world. I believe that there is one perfect one, and that God will lead us together. How can anyone live with someone and not believe that... /shrug....

the_zeeba

lol.... isnt this the whole reason we have a Bible? We are inherently flawed.

on topic, there are a lot of books on the subject.

Most of the conservative ones say that dating is flawed because the focus is on the physical gratification. While you can argue that you can use the dating period simply as a way to get to know the other person and avoid the physical relationship, dating still may funnel a couple towards that. I happen to agree that dating has pitfalls, but at the same time, there arent many other options.... So I make sure to set perimeters.

The only book I can remember off the top of my head is John Piper's 'I kissed dating goodbye'

TommyStrand

Hehe, yeah. Humanys flaws is the sole reason for salvation.

Leonard Ravenhill said: "If God did not come to save me from myself, I don't know what He came to do at all."

Thank you lots for the book recommendation the_zeeba =) I have listened to John Piper, but searching for it, I only found that book title by the author Joshua Harris. Is this the one you meant?

the_zeeba

lol yeah it is. I forgot. I read that book a good while ago when I was a teenager and ive been reading a few Piper books recently and mustve got the names confused.

I just finished reading Piper's, "What Jesus Demands from the World" which was pretty good I thought.

snark

Marriage in the modern mesopotemic region is often arranged, and dating in the conventional sense is a luxury observed only by more western cultures. I wouldn't be surprised if marriages were more arranged etc. in the time the bible was written since I can't imagine it changing from dating to the way it is today.

Duo

There's no verse in the bible about eating skittles, but I still eat them, doesn't mean it's wrong and it doesn't mean I should stop doing it. It just means that skittles weren't around when the bible was written, and dating ( in our sense ) probably wasn't either.

Also the friends thing really just wouldn't work out in todays world imo, people like to know they have someone that is theirs, that's how strong relations build, and if your dating someone, but as a friend, then what are the rules? Are they allowed to date other friends? Wouldn't that be just like dating mutliple people? So if they are not allowed to date anyone else as a friend except you, then wouldn't it just be dating anyways?

See what I mean, it's just too complicated on both sides, and it's way better to just say hey, I like you, you like me, let's be together and see how things work out.

And lastly, some people just can't see anything beyond their vision, including God, so to them it is not God who lead them to their perfect mate, it was simply themselves and/or random chance.

That's just how some people see it, nothing wrong with it, just how they operate.

My brother has a very very very blunt imagination and thinking process, he only sees it if it's in front of him, I on the other hand can picture anything in my mind, so it's easy for me to see God behind certain actions in life, while it is hard for him to believe in anyone ( specially an omnipotent figure who has never been seen publicly ) besides himself.

__________________
Lewz and Jesus are my homeboys.
"Imagination and Memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names."

Lewz

I agree with Duo here think, you need to learn to live your life. Not only are you using whats in the bible as your guide which i applaud, but I worry your also using things not in the bible to influence you without using your brain. God gave you the tool to use, He gave you all the tools to date and be respectful to God and his will.

TommyStrand

Using skittles as an example is not valid imo. Why? Because the bible does tell us about food and drink - how you can eat anything if it is done with gratitude and thanksgiving, just not blood, and from strangled animals, nor get drunk.

And the bible do tell us about love, about man and women. And the thing is MARRIAGE. IT didnt NEED to tell us about dating or girlfriends/boyfriends, because it told us what we should do. God doesnt have to go into every specific trend that man makes, only give the info on what to do.

To say that we need to date because we need to try and fail, in finding out sole mate is not logical to me. I will live for God. If I want to marry I will find a girl who is also living for God, and not wasting time on looking for a mate when she should be living for God.

Imo physical contact before marriage is not important at all, and I dont see why it should be neccessary. I think going steady before marriage created a false relationship with attributes between them that are not natural. IMO. Please keep trying to persuade me. I am not dead set on this yet =)